Arizona State Rep. Reginald Bolding Calls For More Information On Dion Johnson Killing
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MARK BRODIE: Last night, the state Department of Public Safety released more information into the death of 28-year-old Dion Johnson, the African American man killed by a DPS trooper on Memorial Day. The agency says an officer came upon Johnson's car parked in the gore point on the Loop 101 near Tatum Boulevard in north Phoenix and found him asleep in the driver's seat with beer cans and a gun visible. The DPS statement says after the officer removed the gun from the car, he tried to arrest Johnson for a DUI, but that Johnson grabbed onto the trooper through the open driver's side door, which led to an altercation. The trooper says he was worried he'd be pushed into traffic, so he drew his gun, at which point Johnson started complying with commands. But the officer says as he holstered his gun, Johnson reached for it. It was then that the officer shot and killed Johnson. DPS also says there is no known video that captures the incident as neither of the officers involved — a second trooper arrived after the shooting — was wearing a body camera. And since both are motorcycle officers, there's no dash camera video. The agency has also not released the names of either of the officers involved. Johnson's death, along with that of George Floyd in Minneapolis and others, has been the impetus behind many of the protests that have taken place in Phoenix and nationwide over the past week. And it's one of the reasons legislative Democrats have called for a special session to take up several police reform measures. In addition, state Rep. Reginald Bolding has asked for more information to be released about the case of Dion Johnson. I spoke with Bolding yesterday afternoon before DPS released the latest information, and I started our conversation by asking what are the biggest questions he has about this case.
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REGINALD BOLDING: Well, you know, right now we're in a place in this country where we're asking for transparency, transparency with regards to officer involved shootings. And in this case in general, while there have been broad outputs and cries from the community regarding body camera footage, we want to know, you know, why wasn't the officer wearing a body camera? We don't know the officer's name. We only know that there was a struggle that occurred. And we have to get more detail.
BRODIE: How have your efforts to get more detail gone? I mean, have you been able to find anything out that you've wanted to find out?
BOLDING: You know, I've been able to meet with the director of the Department of Public Safety, and there's some answers that I was able to get. You know, the family wanted to know why was Dion stopped? And what we learned was Dion's car was actually parked in the gore area so the motorcycle trooper caught up behind Dion. And so that's new information. So that's something that the family should have been able to know. We were told that there was a gun involved or a gun that was recovered. What I have learned is that the gun that was recovered did not play a role in the incident. So there was some information that I learned and then there was some more questions that the meeting left me with as well. I also learned that the Phoenix police is actually handling the criminal investigation and it's not the Department of Public Safety. They're doing their own internal investigation.
BRODIE: Well, that would seem to at least fall in line with something that you and your colleagues on the Democratic side at the Capitol are asking for in terms of a special session. One of the tenets that you're asking for is to have investigations into these kinds of incidents handled by an outside group. Does this meet that test for you?
BOLDING: You know, for us, when we talk about external investigations, there's multiple parts, right? One of that one of the parts are, we want to make sure that, when there is officer involved shootings, you don't have police agencies investigating their own brothers and sisters who they're on the frontline with. But the most striking piece is a, county prosecutors who work with police departments every single day, they're being left with the decision on whether or not to charge officers. And quite frankly, what we've seen in this state and around this country is that that hasn't happened.
BRODIE: Let me ask you one more question about your conversation with a, DPS director Heston Silbert. Did you get the sense that you'll get answers to the questions you had at some point or like, did you leave wondering if you would ever find out?
BOLDING: You know, one of the, one of the difficult problems with this incident is that there is only one side of a story that can be told. And I don't know the facts of the case. I wasn't there. But what I can speak to is that, when we are, when we're in positions in which it's community versus law enforcement's word, the community always tends to be on the outside looking in. And my hope is that we get more answers. But, quite frankly, when there's only one story to come from, I think there will always will be more answers and more questions. There will always be more questions that the family have and lawmakers as well.
BRODIE: Let's go back to the special legislative session that you and your colleagues are calling for. It looks like there is some support for some of the things that you were asking for, at least based on the responses that some of your Republican colleagues on social media have posted. Do you get the sense that there is broad support, at least on the legislative level, to do at least some of what you're asking for?
BOLDING: You know, what I've seen at the state capitol is lawmakers who, they want to have the conversation about reform, but when it actually comes time to enact the reform, there is a number of things that, "complicates" the measure. When we talk about body cameras, the first thing that you hear is "well, we could do body cameras, but it costs a lot of money." When we talk about external investigations, "well, we can do it, but we have to make sure that departments think that things are going to be fair." There's always the obstacle and barriers, but I think we can't allow the death of George Floyd and Dion Johnson and so many others to be in vain. We have to have proactive reform.
BRODIE: Do you have any measure of confidence that Gov. Ducey will — I mean, he's most likely going to call at least one special session to deal with finances and other COVID-19 related things — do you any measure of optimism that this will be included?
BOLDING: You know, if Gov. Ducey believes that he is the governor for all of Arizona, I believe that in his heart he will push for a special session.
BRODIE: So obviously, George Floyd is not the first African American to be killed by police in this country. Dion Johnson, not the first African American in Arizona to be killed by police or by law enforcement. Is there something about this moment that you think might break through and get some kind of lasting changes either here in Arizona or nationwide?
BOLDING: You know, I hope so. You know, I'm seeing more people speak out than they've spoke out before because, as you mentioned, there have been a number of these cases. And I believe that we have to be at of position and at a point where we say, this is the tipping point. This is the place in which, no matter if you live in a suburban community and you are not a person of color or you are a person of color and you live in the urban neighborhoods, what we saw with this George Floyd incident was something that hurt everyone. And we cannot allow, we cannot allow that death to go in vain.
BRODIE: Do you think it was just the graphic nature and the severity of what happened to Mr. Floyd that might lead us to, as you call this, a tipping point? Is there something else at play here that you think has led more people to speak out about this than maybe have spoken out in the past?
BOLDING: You know, since we're in the middle of a health crisis then, and many people find themselves social distancing at their homes and they're watching social media, and they're looking at the media more often. We went through about a 10-day span in which people really saw what black America sees every day. So, by individuals being in community and at home and being able to constantly see what happened over this 10-day period, I really believe it lit a fire and sparked the flame.
BRODIE: Alright. That is state Rep. Reginald Bolding. Rep. Bolding, thanks for your time. I appreciate it.
BOLDING: Thank you for having me.
